LeatherneckNation / Leatherneck Nation / Leatherneck Nation Lounge

CoSIDA academic rankings....

Leatherface — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:37:59 GMT

CoSIDA- College Sports Information Directors of America- have their Academic All-Americans list out. This is through 2006-07 year.This is a total by Division. I don't know how long they have kept this ranking/listing.( It's what schools have had the most Academic All- Americans.)

D-1

1) Nebraska
2) Notre Dame
3) Penn State
4) Stanford

D-2

1) Pitt State ( beat out Truman this year with two football academic All-Americans)
2) Truman State
3) Abilene Christian
4) University of North Dakota
9) South Dakota State University- had them listed D-2. I guess they were still in the transition period for this ranking, and time period.

By Sport

Southern Illinois-C was # 2 in softball.
Northern Illinois was # 7 in softball .

Seemed Illinois Wesleyan and Augustana College (IL) had a noticeable presence on the list. A tough list to get on, but, one that demonstrates academic excellence.

Question for Bluehat....

Leatherface — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:52:15 GMT

I read recently - although I question it's accuracy- that UND and USD will become active members of the Great West Conference in 2012/2013. Have you heard this? Is this when their transitional period will end? I always figured they would want in the Summit.

Leathernecks Ranked #15 in Pre-Season Poll

WIU712 — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:42:00 GMT

Sporting News FCS Preseason Top 25

1. Appalachian State
2. James Madison
3. Northern Iowa
4. Eastern Washington
5. Delaware
6. Montana
7. Richmond
8. North Dakota State
9. Youngstown State
10. Cal Poly
11. Massachusetts
12. Elon
13. Wofford
14. McNeese State
15. WESTERN ILLINOIS
16. Eastern Illinois
17. Villanova
18. Northern Arizona
19. Montana State
20. Harvard
21. Southern Illinois
22. The Citadel
23. New Hampshire
24. Delaware
25. Fordham

Missouri Valley Football Conference Predictions

1. Northern Iowa
2. North Dakota State
3. Youngstown State
4. WESTERN ILLINOIS
5. Southern Illinois
6. South Dakota State
7. Illinois State
8. Missouri State
9. Indiana State

TOP PLAYERS

Offense-Tyler Roehl, RB, North Dakota State
Defense-Jason Williams, LB, WESTERN ILLINOIS
Newcomer-Brandon Summers, QB, Youngstown State

Sporting News FCS All-America Team

OFFENSE
QB-Armanti Edwards, Appalachian State
RB-Tyler Roehl, North Dakota State
RB-Jordan Scott, Colgate
OL-Matthew McCracken, Richmond
OL-Joel Bell, Furman
OL-Chaz Millard, Eastern Illinois
OL-Eman Naghavi, McNeese State
C-Stephen Field, Cal Poly
WR-Ramses Barden, Cal Poly
WR-Terrell Hudgins, Elon
TE-Clay Harbor, Missouri State
PK-Jon Striefsky, Delaware
RS-Jeremy Gilchrist, Hampton

DEFENSE
DL-Gary Tharrington, Appalachian State
DL-Mark Huygens, Northern Iowa
DL-Jovan Belcher, Maine
DL-Brian Jackson, Lehigh
LB-Bobby Daly, Montana State
LB-Jason Williams, WESTERN ILLINOIS
LB-Seth Goldwire, Wofford
DB-Ladarius Webb, Nicholls State
DB-Al Donaldson, Alabama A&M
DB-David Hyland, Morehead State
DB-Brandon Gathof, Eastern Kentucky
P-Kevin Cook, Eastern Illinois

Director's Cup Update

Leatherface — Thu, 29 May 2008 20:40:25 GMT

D1 rankings as 29 May.

UNI- 77
ORU-89
SIUC-106
Oakland-115
Illinois State-165
EIU-210
Indiana State- 210
Missouri State-210
NDSU-258

WESTERN not ranked.
Final due 11 June.

D2 as 22 May

UND- 9
USD-15
SIUE- 21
Truman State-25
Final due 11 June

LeatherCy- are you ok?

Leatherface — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:10:42 GMT

Has the flooding affected you and your's?

SIU-E Joins the Ohio Valley

WIU712 — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:13:20 GMT

I saw in today's paper that SIU-Edwardsville has joined the Ohio Valley Conference. They will be the 11th team in the OVC.

I think that they will be at full membership for the 2010-2011 season.

Summit Standings

Leatherface — Tue, 20 May 2008 19:35:04 GMT

At th end of winter sports. The WESTERN women should pick up some points with this springs success.

Commissioner's Cup:

1- Oakland 60
2- South Dakota State 56
T for third- ORU, WESTERN 54.5
5- North Dakota State 52

Men's All Sport

1- Oakland 44
2- ORU 27
3- IUPUI 25
4- WESTERN 20

Women's All Sport

1- South Dakota State 44
T for second- North Dakota State, WESTERN 34.5
4- Oakland 30

After the spring numbers are in, it will be interesting to see who wins each area. When you look at this, it hasen't been that bad of a year for WESTERN within the conference. Offering a large number of sports helps too.

Rams Check out WESTERN

WIU712 — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:52:08 GMT

From the Macomb Journal:

A decision could come sooner - rather than later - as to whether or not the St. Louis Rams will return to Macomb and Western Illinois University this summer for training camp.

Five members of the Rams organization, including vice president of operations John Oswald, were in Macomb Wednesday. During that time, they met with city and university officials, including Mayor Mick Wisslead, WIU President Al Goldfarb, Macomb Area Economic Development Corp. Director Kim Pierce and WIU director of athletics Tim Van Alstine.

"It was a very upbeat meeting," Wisslead said. "They're very well acquainted with Western and Macomb. ... They know we are not a work in progress."

The Rams held training camp at Western Illinois University for nine years, starting in 1996 and ending in 2004. During that time, almost 200,000 people watched the team practice.

When the team was at WIU, players lived and dined in Thompson Hall, which is very close to the practice fields and classroom spaces the team used.

Since 2004, the Rams have held training camp at their facility in Earth City, Mo. However, current Rams head coach Scott Linehan expressed a desire to hold training camp elsewhere this season. The team finished 3-13 a season ago.

In addition to Macomb, Rams officials reportedly visited Oshkosh and Stevens Point, Wis., on Monday. The University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point was home to the inaugural training camp of the expansion Jacksonville Jaguars in 1995.

Initially, the Rams were looking seriously at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse as a training camp site for this summer. But that is no longer an option, at least for this year, as the school decided to rework its fields and stadium.

Linehan said one of the Wisconsin campuses would be a better choice, because of the opportunity to work out and scrimmage with other teams there. The Kansas City Chiefs still train in River Falls, Wis., while the Packers train in Green Bay, and the Minnesota Vikings aren't too far away in Mankato, Minn.

However, it has been reported that the Tennessee Titans have invited the Rams to Nashville for a series of practices before the two teams open the preseason schedule Aug. 9. The possibility also exists that the Titans then would visit the Rams camp the following year.

While training in Macomb, the Rams scrimmaged against the Titans in 2000, following their Super Bowl XXIV battle. The Chicago Bears also visited Macomb for a series of workouts and scrimmage in 2004.

Rick Smith, vice president of public relations for the Rams, said Thursday that Linehan hopes to make a decision on a training camp location by early next week.

Year in review (03/26/08)

Leatherface — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:31:53 GMT

A look at athletic records for the year-to this point. If a sales manager/Director in the corporation I work for had these types of overall achievements by his "teams", he/she would be on the chopping block.

Team conf. overall
Men's BB 7-11 12-18
Women's BB 12-6 14-16
Baseball 0-0 1-14
softball 2-0 3-16
Tennis 0-0 4-5
Football 4-4 6-5
M. Soccer 6-10-3 ties
W. Soccer 16-3-1

Not exactly a strong showing-EXCEPT for WOMEN'S SOCCER!!!!!!!!

Some will think I'm out for the AD'S head- not true. However, surely most people aren't satisfied with these overall records.

I just believe WESTERN needs to raise the expectations for each coach. More accountability- including for the AD.

I must live in a different world, but, our employees are accountable for their productivity- including myself- each and every day. If we don't produce, they will find someone who can.

WESTERN wants to be D1-fine. But, make the commitment to excell. That's all.

Go ahead and blast me- I really don't care anymore. You're either improving or stagnant, and I'm afraid WESTERN is stagnant.

I truly hope the new BB coach can succeed- I hope all of the teams can succeed. It's going to take more of a commitment from WESTERN'S administration-IMHO

APR & WESTERN

Leatherface — Tue, 06 May 2008 20:06:06 GMT

The NCAA released the academic progress report data today. WESTERN made the penalty list for men's BB. It is listed under historical penalty, and they have been put on public notice.

Man, I hope Molinari can turn that program around- in more ways than one.

Western Hall Floor Up-Dated !!

WIU712 — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:50:23 GMT

Waste Management Court at Western Hall received a new look this month, complete with updated logos of Western Illinois and The Summit League, and the addition of the Waste Management logo.

The new court features a lighter-colored, more natural looking wood finish. A Western Illinois sweep logo with a deep purple replaces the old WIU sweep logo at mid-court. In the lanes, the large basketballs are gone, and purple and gold Summit League logos have been painted in front of the free throw stripes. Waste Management’s logo appears on each side of the court near the top of the three-point lines. The new men’s three-point line is painted in purple, just outside the existing women’s line in black. The outside of the court is defined by a wide purple block.

In less than two weeks, the old paint and finish were sanded down to the bare wood and the new design was painted. As sealant is currently being applied, the court will not be in use again until graduation.

Photos available at:

http://www.wiuathletics.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?ATCLID=1447031&SPSID=49946&SPID=4947&DB_OEM_ID=12000&PALBID=18795

Director's Cup Update...

Leatherface — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:57:04 GMT

D1- as of April 10th- schools of possible interest.

Northern Iowa- 59th
SIU-C 84th
Oakland- 98th
ORU- 106th
Illinois State- 157th
NIU- 178th
EIU- 190th
Missouri State- 190th
S. Dakota St.- 190th
N. Dakota St.- 238th

D2 final winter- April 3rd

U of South Dakota- 6th
U of North Dakota- 13th
SIUe- 20th
Truman- 25th
Quincy- 122th

WIU neckties?

Leatherface — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:07:02 GMT

AD VanAllstine and Coach Molinari were wearing some awesome WIU ties during the news-conference. Has anyone seen these for sale in Macomb- or university bookstore?

Thanks

No pitching! (Baseball)

Neckfansince71 — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 16:00:34 GMT

Just listened to the baseball game. Went into the 9th with a 5 run lead and lost 9-11! Starter did a nice job, but 2 errors in the 9th and a grandslam are to blame! Softball in same straits! Ferguson is hurt! Kid from California not doing well, and forced at times to pitch a freshman in Biebel!

After all of the preseason fireworks for Stan's club this is pretty disappointing. Two quality wins against some great teams and then losses that should not be. Seems we can't play good baseball with all of the errors. Too bad!

Maybe I should now look forward to the off season! Ala summer!

Rams to check out WIU for Camp

B-Ball Fan — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:43:23 GMT

Rams' officials will be at WIU on Wednesday, April 16 to check out the facilities after they have been in Wisconsin the following week checking out couple options. Good luck to WIU & Macomb on getting the Rams back. Still sounds like a long shot, but stranger things have happened.

Reality check, check, check, check check a boom!

Neckfansince71 — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:56:52 GMT

Okay, so I am also a baseball and softball fan. And I like track and field too! I have no idea why the baseball team is 1-13 after Stan talked so much about how good they were going to be. As far as I am concerned, he just flat out talks way tooooo much. When I had a good team in basketball, I talked as little as possible. Softball, well they have been so close. Seems like the pitching in softball and the hitting in baseball have hurt. Could it be that he weather has also sucked and maybe since both teams seem to be on the edge maybe a little sunshine and warmth with some in field practice and batting cage in the sun would have helped. And yet, maybe not. But let me ask you something. What kinda softball team does Davidson have??? Better yet, how about their baseball team???? Don't know??? Either do I!! Not that no one cares, but I just saw them beat up on Wisconsin.

What is important??? Well football at WIU, and basketball. I think we have the right combo for a good coaching hire for Bball. The stars are aligned this time. We may just get someone who can truly turn this thing around. And football wise, well I go to bed mad when they lose........I just shrung my shoulders when Stan's diamond men take another hit, and smile a bit when they don't. We need a basketball coach folks. TV needs to worry about that. He continues to improve the facilities!!!! A good hire for Bball, a great football season hopefully to follow. What more could we all want!

Centenary dismisses coach

meganeck — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:38:38 GMT

Western won't be the only confrence team looking for a head coach, after Centenary dismissed Coach Rob Flaska after only 3 seasons.
There was a quote in the article I read that said they were seeking different leadership. I wonder if the players were complaining. When I went to the Centenary game and sat behind their bench, he was berating the players pretty bad when they made the littlest mistakes. I know coaches have to get on their players but he seemed a little excessive.

Pretty cool and inspiring

WIU02 — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:58:52 GMT

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=homuth&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2

This article caught my attention when it was about an Iraq Veteran from the Chicagoland area. After I read further, I realized he's a current WIU student. Best of luck and thank you so very much for serving our country!

The worse thing about this is..........

Neckfansince71 — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:24:09 GMT

Most of us figured DT was gone. Even though talent wise things seem to be improving, support in Macomb for Leatherneck bball seems to be at an all time low. We are in need of a "savior" type person, who can put some life and hope back into the mix. But who will that be. I know we have had some names thrown out there, but I really feel like its going to remain awfully quiet for a while. Will we have our coach after the "final 4?" Probably the best time to meet and greet but maybe, just maybe TV's short list will allow him to move with a quicker timeline. Price looks to me to be a great option, especially with his contacts with area recruits. This interesting, very interesting to say the least!!!

Not a surprise!

Neckfansince71 — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:18:36 GMT

For me, this is not a surprise. I said last year that Tim would honor Derek's contract. 5 years is 5 years and I am going to go out on a limb and say that it was DT's job to win or lose. I have no idea what the agreement was, but I would have been happy with 18-10 and a trip to the semi's of the Summit. Still, it is again time for a change. Change is good sometimes. It will be good for DT and it will be good for WIU. And, we are definitely in a better position this year than last. DT brought in some good talent, they matured and played well at times, 12-18 is a good start with a young group of kids. So thanks DT. You left your mark. The program is better off than Kerwin left it. But it is time to move on!!

But who?? I know there have been 5 names mentioned!!! But I have a hunch that the next head coach is gonna be a big surprise!!!! We need some excitement, somebody who can inject some life into the program and Western Hall!!!!! But who???????????

IUPUFW Message Board?

TheBlueliner — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:44:24 GMT

Does IUPUFW have a message board?

Is there a link on this page to other Summit League message boards?

When will Tim drop the hammer on Thomas?

LeatherCy — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:45:35 GMT

Being up here in the shadows of the UNI-DOME I have to rely on the WIU Athletics web site or here for info on my beloved 'Necks. Will Tim drop the hammer immediately after we lose in the conference tournament?

OH, OH, OH, 00000000000000000000

Neckfansince71 — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 19:28:10 GMT

So the ladies are 0-12 and obviously are having trouble scoring runs. Seems like the freshman are really getting some valuable playing time. The loss of the starting catcher from last year due to an ACL tear is really hurting our offensive output and our pitching is getting pounded more than I thought it would. The Winds were picked to win the conference, not too sure that will happen!!!

Obviously Hyman was not expecting two losses in Alabama two weeks ago. Right now, after the 7-4 loss today against the Sooners the men are 0-5. Maybe Hyman talks to much or maybe a little less agressive schedule early would help. I dunno! Both the women and the men have really tough schedules early. Not sure all the losses helps anything.

RockeNews....

Leatherface — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 09:51:32 GMT

In case someone doesn't receive the online newsletter from WESTERN, you can contact the Alumni Office to receive it electronically- monthly, I believe. I find it very informative with good links. It's called Rocke News.

Buffalo Wild Wings

western-101 — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:57:01 GMT

It is a long dreary winter that never seems to end. Thought would bring up some light hearted conversation.

I saw on the Western Courier online that the Buffalo Wild Wings is open for business in Macomb. That makes it official Western has know moved up to the "Big Time". Every other big college town in Illinois has one now except for Eastern, so we can lord ourselves over them:heh I would love to here any comentary on about the new BWW as it might not be till football season that I get to Macomb to see for myself.

The first time I went to BWW was back in 2001 in Elmhurst. I remember thinking to myself what an absolutly perfect hang out joint to watch sports drink beer and get eats.

Trivia: Who can tell me what the thrird W in Buffalo Wild Wing's old nickname BW3 stands for?

Prayers for NIU

Leatherface — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:50:20 GMT

My prayers are with our friends at NIU. NIU Huskie- are you ok? What the honk is going on anymore?Geeezzz.

WIU Softball

LeatherCy — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:47:22 GMT

Not sure how much interest there is here in WIU Softball but I had to opportunity to take five high school players to the recent SB clinic at WIU. I was very impressed with Coach Holly her staff and players. They really gave the girls individula attention and our girls learned a lot. I can see why WIU won the conference last year and is picked to win it again this year. I am going to try and attend the DH at Iowa State and the tournament at Iowa when WIU plays up this way.

Texas v. The Nation All-Star Game

The "PIT" Prognosticator — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:28:37 GMT

I watched this game because I wanted to see some of the Gateway players, however I don't recall seeing this interview with Buddy Ryan. I like the reaction of one of his assistants after he says it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yp6rrDWJH00

What can we talk about?

Leatherface — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:01:47 GMT

The men's BB situation has worn us all out. The women are struggling. What can we talk about? Somebody help! I need this forum as a good diversion. Someone bring up a topic-please.

Bluehat- whats going on in the Dakotas?
Fansince71- any insights?
B-Ball Fan- any more suggestions?
WIU712- any updates at WESTERN?

New Year's resoultions...

Leatherface — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:02:02 GMT

Contribute financially to WESTERN this year- sports and general.

Attend at least one football game, and one other activity.

Not be so critical of the athletic administration.

Talk up WESTERN when appropriate in social or business discussions.

Wear WESTERN hat or T-shirt more often.

Make a point of keeping up with university academic advances and accomplishments.

Merry Christmas

thebluehatman — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:59:02 GMT

Merry Christmas Leatherneck fans.
Here's to hoping you and yours a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Years.

Keep those hard hats on!

Neckfansince71 — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:15:04 GMT

Hanson Field and more
712 stated almost matter of fact manner that the west end will be started at the end of this coming football season. I hope you are right!!! The east side was really a site for these 54 year old eyes to be hold. 712, did you here this on the radio? Or at a Leatherneck Booster meeting? From TimV, President Goldfarb? I wonder if they are waiting to announce this until the PAC money comes through, which I think will happen in January! You know, I went through the program from the UNI game looking for a specific corporate sponsor and could not find them anywhere. Wonder if the press box is going to use their windows in the near future and it will be called the Pella Window Press Box. They have to be in the financial mix somewhere.

I got curious and took a look at the Murray Street mall plan (CT Vivian Plaza) which includes the new multi-cultural center. The goal is to give the campus a “heart” and to bring the north and south campus together in a seamless manner. Plans for the union include an open air café and more room for other food vendors. Don’t know the timeline for this either but it looks like they are very serious about this also! The silent portion of the “capital campaign” is underway also so maybe this will be financed using these funds.

Chicago State

Neckfansince71 — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:08:36 GMT

Chicago State
The Summit does not need or want Chicago State! I know this for a fact that the Cougars were asked to leave the conference quietly or get thrown out publicly. They may have a nice basketball arena, but they ran a classless athletic program then and they still do now. They did not leave hoping to join the Horizon! No D1 want to be goes independent after belonging to a conference for so long. Taking them back would be like taking back a “run around” wife who swears she will change! To quote one of my favorite baseball announcers, “she gone”, “they gone!” Forget it 712!

Single Shooter or Conspiracy

Neckfansince71 — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:22:21 GMT

I traveled to Dallas Dec. 1 for a conference. Visited Dealy Plaza while in town and really got an eye full. I was in 5th grade, Mr. Andersons class at about 1:30 when it was announced that he had been shot and killed. Left a definite impression on me then and forever. I really think that this was the day that I learned just how quickly life can change. Thought this might be a fun poll question!

NIU makes a Killing!

Neckfansince71 — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:13:00 GMT

Jerry Kill
Dan M or Jerry??? Let’s see, a proven D1 who is at the end of his coaching lifetime, or an up and coming FCS coach who has proven he can run a program. My choice hands down is Kill. He is a winner and a survivor in many ways. The question is this…he had a habit of adding some big timers to his program from the SEC or the Big 10. He won’t be able to do that anymore!

Better Attendance at SIU Game

WIU712 — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:21:29 GMT

Five thousand more people attended Saturday's semi-final game in Carbondale with SIU playing Delaware. A crowd of 11,600 sat in the cold, freezing mist/fog. That is a big improvement from the crowd that they had for their quarter-final game with U-Mass.

People had been encouraged all week to turn out for this game. And it looks like they did! BRAVO!

Disappointing attendance at SIU Playoff Game

WIU712 — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:18:56 GMT

Fans don’t want to adopt Dawgs!!

Jerry Kill wasn’t put off that the game launching his Salukis to their farthest playoff point in a quarter-century drew barely a third of what rickety McAndrew Stadium can hold.

The 6,560 who turned out for the Salukis’ 34-27 quarterfinal victory over Massachusetts last Saturday was a long way from the few hundred the coach saw in the stands when he inherited a program in disarray in 2001. Back then, some here didn’t care if Carbondale had college football at all.

Winning over the hearts and minds of Saluki fans is a slow process, Kill said. And he’s hopeful the 69-year-old stadium will be rocking when Southern (12-1) hosts Delaware (10-3) in a semifinal Saturday in the Football Championship Subdivision, what used to be Division I-AA.

“You have to grow a culture that understands what’s going on, and I think we’re still learning about football,” the 46-year-old Kill said Saturday when asked about the quarterfinal game’s turnout. “And it takes time.”

The question now: How many Salukis fans will turn out to see what comes next?

During the Salukis’ home basketball loss Saturday night to then-No. 15 Indiana, the public-address announcer pressed fans at Saluki Arena to turn out en masse for this week’s showdown against Delaware.

In a column Monday in Southern’s student newspaper, the Daily Egyptian, graduate student Andy Fruth called turnout for the Massachusetts game “pathetic” while pressing that “now we need to get serious.”

“I hope everyone realizes what a tremendous opportunity we have in front of us,” he wrote in the piece titled “SIU football needs you.” “Show some pride in your school. Go to the game, not just the tailgate. We all have an opportunity to be a part of something special.”

Happy Thanksgiving!!!

Leatherface — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:52:31 GMT

Regarding WESTERN and this holiday, I am thankfull WESTERN gave me the opportunity to achieve a college education. I am thankfull WESTERN was/and is/ a "football school". That has always been my interest, and being associated with WESTERN has lead to many good memories of football teams, and the game day atmosphere. All may not agree, but I have always felt football has been the premier sport at WESTERN.

I am thankfull WESTERN has worked to improve it's image the past several years. I had some concerns during the late 80's and early 90's. However, I think many improvements have been made in the past several years.

Like others on the board, I met my wife there, and had many good friends and memories.

WIU712.........

Leatherface — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:00:03 GMT

come on back. The upcoming men's BB season is here, and I know you have some good comments.

necksfansince71....

Leatherface — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:24:59 GMT

are you still around?