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RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

WIU93Alum — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:08:22 GMT

letsgonecks: I strongly agree with your opinion, you hit it right on the head. For those who think we should go DII, and have a easier road, think again. We would get our butts kicked there also if we continue to hire second rate coaching.

RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

letsgonecks — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 08:25:58 GMT

Dear Fan56,

I appreciated your views and thoughts. Like any situations, there's always two sides (religion, politics, relationships, life in general), so I respect your opinion. In regards to your thought about players still wanting to come to WIU if we were DII......Most high school kids that have any talent and that are getting interest from schools, dream of going FBS DI and someday playing in the NFL. When no FBS team makes them an offer they would then choose FCS as there are way more FCS players in the NFL then DII. And yes you can still get full rides and yes winning is ideal, but you weigh your options as what gives me the best chance to become a pro.

You certainly win at Grand Valley State a DII powerhouse, but compared to WIU we have way more players in the NFL. Young kids look at these things and even though we had a down year we will still have a player that will be drafter and a pervious years player going in the 3rd round.

Put the coaching situation aside and these kids would rather go FCS at WIU then Grand Valley State.

This is just my opinion.

Lets Go Neck.....Seriously lets get a road win tonight.

RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

StLouisNecks — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:48:07 GMT

I HATE this idea. I wish people would stop talking about it! It suggests that rather than trying to fix any of the problems, we should just lower the bar. What kind of attitude is that?!?

Does anyone suggest that the Bears should move to the CFL because they would be able to win more games that way? No, because that is ridiculous. If WIU were to move back to division II, it would be a lazy cop out by an apathetic administration that is just hoping to maintain a status quo that is broken.

Eastern Illinois Univeristy has a smaller enrollment than Western, and I never hear of anyone talking about them moving down to division II. Lets fix our problems and move forward, rather than talking about moving back because it might be easier.

RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

western-101 — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:51:53 GMT

Western had some real full houses in the 80's. I am thinking that WIU went D-I in 1978.

1984 was a banner year for WIU coming off of a hot 1983 season. WIU averaged 5,260 spectators per home contest that year. I think people will find it interesting that in the year of 1984 out of 306 D-I schools WIU's attendance out drew 217 other D-I programs.

The following is a summarized list of some programs of interest that WIU bested attendance wise in '84: source

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/e1638e804e0ba39a83edf31ad6fc8b25/1984_basketball_attend.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=e1638e804e0ba39a83edf31ad6fc8b25

Western Illinois….5,260

Arizona State……5,191
Drake…………… 5,156
Texas Tech……...5,077
Oral Roberts…….5,076
Missouri State…..4,778
Cincinnati………. 4,752
Xavier………….. 4,788
Mississippi State..4,393
Northern Iowa…..4,125
Mississippi……… 4,092
Loyola (IL)……...4,024
Butler…………… 3,861
Southern Illinois...3,720
Texas A&M…….. 3,594
Florida State…….3,582
Baylor…………... 3,254
California………..3,224
Northern Illinois…3,168
Penn State……….3,496
Gonzaga………… 2,884
Centenary……….2,468
Seton Hall……….2,222
Southeast Mo.St...2,120
St. Louis………... 1,978
Valparaiso………. 1,881
Eastern Illinois…..1,770
Chicago State……1,588
Illinois-Chicago…1,588
IUPUI……………. 500
Missouri KC…….. 273

Of particular interrest to me is WIU's attendance was better than 10 programs currently in one of the six "power" conferences (BCS). Also of note, WIU's attencance was better that year than four teams currently in the MVC.

RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

WIU712 — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:11:52 GMT

Those full houses at Western Hall vs Eastern IL was back in our Division 2 days. I think that Western went to Division 1 in 1983.

RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

Fan56 — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:39:50 GMT

Sorry, but Fan56 hasn't been here long enough to remember full stands. That sounds like long enough ago for us to have been D2

RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

western-101 — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:01:05 GMT

The person that wrote the article in the Courier showed me no sign at all that any amount of homework was done prior to the aimless ramblings.

Moving to D-II would have many ramifications, and many of those would be negative.

RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

WIU93Alum — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:00:39 GMT

"Letsgonecks" I agree with you. We will not get the same type of player if we drop down to D-II. Who the hell would want Quincy as there rival, because that is the type of teams we would be playing. Maybe our recruiting is just plain bad, because if our teams continue to lose with the talent they have, there should be a lot of starting positions up for grabs. I would think there are good players out there who want to play D-1 and be able to come in an start as a freshmen.

RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

WIU712 — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:50:27 GMT

Fan56 must be forgetting those games in the 70's and 80's when we played Eastern Illinois. Those games had people standing in the corners!!

RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

Fan56 — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:44:31 GMT

You're assuming the players wouldn't come because we wouldn't be D1. Yet, in D2 they can still get full scholarships. Face it, the caliber of players we are getting, regardless of sport, are not the cream of the crop. And wouldn't a player rather be on a winning team than a losing team?

And while there may have been more fans in the stands when FB was winning, sell-out crowds were not the norm. BB has never had full stands except when we play Bradley's men, and then it's because they are Bradley's fans.

Student-athletes who come to Western want a chance to compete, but very few are truly pro prospects. And even then, look at the pro athletes who come from D2 schools and below.

RE: A Move to Division 2 ???

letsgonecks — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:10:12 GMT

They seem to think that when we move down a division the same players are going to come here???? Yes football has had a few down years and the basketball team has been consistently sub par, but the player we now get wouldn't be here if we moved down a level. This means the talent will get worse and we might end up being a below average DII school.

For those that don't know......SIU moved down from IA Football in 1983 and won a IAA National Championship. Then became one of the worst IAA football programs ever. It took them years to recover.

Yes, we had our worst football recorded ever and yes attendance is horrible, but lets not give up completely. I know it's been seven years since since 2003, but we won then and we put fans in the stands. One good season and we could get back on track.

As for basketball.......they are getting better, but can't seem to get the close ones. I strongly believe that if all eligible players return next year they have a good shot at being a contender.

DII is not the answer.

Lets Go Necks

A Move to Division 2 ???

WIU712 — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:28:31 GMT

Today's (1-22-10) editorial in the Western Courier presents the pro's and con's of moving to Divison 2. It appears that the Western Courier favors this move.

Is it time for a booth review?

By: WC Editorial Board
Posted: 1/22/10

When thinking about why students pick Western as their university, there are multiple factors that they tend to consider. One factor that does not seem to affect their decision at all is Western's athletic performance.

Students come to Western for a variety of reasons. Some visit from surrounding towns because of the comfort of staying close to their loved ones, while others pick Macomb to get as far away as possible from their family life.

The LEJA program is huge, and draws a great deal of students. Also the affordability of this state school with a guaranteed four-year tuition lock attracts those looking for higher values in higher education.

But what about athletics? Aside from those students who come here to play, are there really any students who pick Western based on factors such as football performances?

Currently we play in Division I, but let's face the facts: there is seldom a story in Courier Sports that speaks of a stunning performance and a well-fought victory.

There is no finger-pointing or criticism here, but why are we in a division where we consistently seem to struggle?

Is it to draw crowds? That's doubtful, because the stereotype almost rings true that for many students the end of the tailgate indicates it's time to go home.

Is it to have those few players that make it to the professional level carry the Leatherneck name? Maybe we are missing something, but the college a pro player attended seems to get about as much attention as how a political scientist did in art class.

So now, we throw an idea out there, more of a "what if" scenario than anything. How about moving down a division? Sure, it might seem like throwing in the towel, but it would certainly make us more competitive, because from the way things are looking now, it seems like we're trying to get by in a division that is simply too stacked to compete with.

This could be a positive move for Western athletics. More winning seasons would probably draw larger crowds to the games, it would increase our school morale, and it would give the athletic department a chance to reevaluate how to improve some of our ailing performances.

On the other side of the coin, perhaps this idea is terrible. It would most likely cut down on alumni donations, and by facing smaller schools we would lose the larger crowds the big names bring along.

Another factor to consider is reputation. Sports statistics are a big deal to a great many people, and maybe Western does need to battle it out in a higher tier in order to compete with other state schools.

Still, Western has not made a name for itself in athletics, and as hard as the student-athletes work, a losing season is never the goal of any teams.

Perhaps a step down is a bad idea, maybe in a season or two the teams can come back strong and make the students and alumni proud. But a weaker division, more tallies in the win column, and games that could boost the moral of the student population might be just what the athletic program needs.

There's no shame in not being the best at a game played by children in schoolyards, but being in Division II where the games are more competitive and enjoyable to watch might be a wise decision.